Everything's Not Black & White
Life isn’t black and white—and neither are the issues shaping our lives and communities.
Hosted by LaLa and Brian, Everything's Not Black & White is a podcast dedicated to exploring the nuanced gray areas between opposing viewpoints. Behind every strong opinion is an individual's story, backstory, and lived experience that shaped how they see the world.
Join us as we trade knee-jerk reactions for curious questions. We dive into today’s trending topics to understand why people feel the way they do, creating a space for respectful, honest dialogue that bridges divides instead of deepening them.
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Everything's Not Black & White
Humanizing the Healthcare System - Dr. Eugene Manley Jr.
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In this episode of Everything’s Not Black and White, Lachandra sits down with Dr. Eugene Manley Jr., a biomedical scientist and CEO of the STEMM and Cancer Health Equity Foundation, to discuss the life-saving necessity of measurable equity. Dr. Manley shares his harrowing personal experiences with medical racism—from witnessing his mother’s mistreatment to navigating a recent surgical recovery where his pain and expertise were ignored by hospital staff. Together, they explore how to turn empathy into a performance metric, the importance of diversifying funding for social impact, and practical frameworks for patients to advocate for themselves within fragmented systems. It is a raw, insightful conversation about shifting from mere survival to true thriving in the face of systemic challenges.
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Everything's Not Black & White
Humanizing the Healthcare System - Dr. Eugene Manley Jr.
Episode Transcript
Intro Announcement: Welcome to Everything's Not Black and White with your hosts, Lala and Brian.
Lala: Hey everybody, and welcome back to today's episode of Everything's Not Black and White. We are the podcast that sits in the gray, where we challenge what we've been taught and ask better questions about power, systems, and lived experience.
Today, I am so excited to have a conversation with someone who reminds us that equity isn't just a value statement—it is a responsibility.
Our guest today is Dr. Eugene Manley Jr. He's a biomedical scientist turned social impact leader and the Founder and CEO of the STEM and Cancer Health Equity Foundation. With over two decades of experience across engineering, molecular biology, nonprofit leadership, and workforce development, Dr. Manley sits at the intersection of data, policy, and deeply human experience.
His work is shaped not only by science, but by witnessing loved ones navigate dismissive and fragmented healthcare, and by personally experiencing medical racism firsthand. That moment became a turning point, transforming how he thinks about accountability, compassion, and what it really means to build systems that don't leave people behind.
Today, we're going to be talking about making equity measurable, why trying to fix everything at once often fixes nothing, and how empathy can and should be a performance metric.
Dr. Manley, welcome to the show today!
Dr. Manley: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here and talk to you. I'm sorry that Brian can't join us, but I will try my best to give you a great conversation.
Lala: I already know you will! A lot of my background in corporate comes from human resources, employee engagement, and corporate culture. What you're talking about—the humanization of work and healthcare—means so much to me. People aren't just rows on a spreadsheet; they are fully developed human lives with distinct needs.
I would love to hear a bit of your origin story. You've had a successful career in science, but your leadership today is deeply shaped by your personal experiences. What moments in your early life made you aware that healthcare does not work the same for everyone?
Dr. Manley: As a kid, my father was a chronic smoker. Even though he wasn't in the house after I was three, I'm pretty certain second-hand smoke led to my chronic health conditions. I had severe asthma and anaphylactic allergies. I was in the hospital 20 to 30 times a year just for asthma until I was 10 years old—it's a miracle I survived.
Growing up in a poor family, I saw how healthcare was and wasn't delivered. I saw how often my mom got disregarded, disrespected, and mistreated during healthcare interactions.
That made me want to understand how the human body works and operates. One of my earliest science fair projects looked at the amount of tar and nicotine in different cigarette brands—learning that unfiltered Camels were among the worst! That started my inquiry into science. My high school science department head recognized my aptitude for research and helped me land my first summer research job at the Michigan Cancer Foundation after 11th grade.
Lala: Growing up as a child of the '70s, smoking was marketed as cool and boss. In Black communities, tobacco companies heavily marketed menthol cigarettes, even funding local inner-city community groups when state or federal funding wasn't available. So many people believed menthol cigarettes were somehow better for you, when in reality the menthol creates a cooling sensation that masks the searing heat of tobacco, making it doubly addictive. My mom smoked menthols for years until she quit cold turkey when I was pregnant with my youngest son.
So many people in the Black community haven't gotten the care they deserve due to how they were treated. You've spoken openly about experiencing medical racism during a hospital stay. How did that experience shift your perspective and sense of responsibility?
Dr. Manley: I had already seen the long arc of Black, Hispanic, and underserved populations being denied care, biomarker testing, or clinical trial access. But my own experience earlier this year really crystallized why I run my foundation.
In late December, I fractured my ankle and heel in a slip-and-fall. In March, my surgeon—who was the chair of podiatry—and I agreed on a comprehensive reconstructive foot surgery. Because I live alone in New York and have a biomechanics background, I asked to be placed in skilled nursing for a few weeks post-op to recover safely, as I needed to be 100% non-weight-bearing for six weeks. The surgeon agreed.
Unfortunately, after surgery, the hospital staff treated me based on bias—assuming because I was on Medicaid at the time, I was poor, Black, and uninformed. The physical therapist lied in my medical records, writing "Patient has no pain and can ambulate," and occupational therapy wrote the same. That is physically impossible after major reconstructive foot surgery where you cannot put any weight on the foot and require pain medication every four to six hours!
Staff tried to issue me an early discharge notice on a Saturday evening, backdating the paperwork to 9:30 AM that morning to bypass the required 24-hour appeal window. I refused because it was illegal. A hospitalist questioned my ability to pay—which isn't their job—and discharge notes falsely claimed I had a home caregiver. The hospital repeatedly doubled down and refused to acknowledge their lack of care coordination.
Lala: It is frustrating and infuriating. When I had my youngest child, a botched epidural caused me to flatline on the operating table. My mother was terrified, but an incredible nurse stepped in, sent the anesthesiologist out of the room, and saved both my life and my baby's life. I wrote directly to the hospital CEO detailing how systemic failures put our lives at risk. The CEO called me, apologized, overhauled protocols, and zeroed out my bill.
It takes taking accountability to start resolving systemic issues.
Dr. Manley: Exactly. I wrote certified letters to hospital leadership and patient advocacy. If patients don't know how to file formal complaints, these structural issues stay hidden. I managed to advocate for myself because of my background, but I worry about all the poor, Medicaid, and minority patients pushed out prematurely without a voice.
That experience led me to expand my foundation's work into policy advocacy and patient education. I developed a framework teaching patients how to navigate healthcare systems: setting up a medical proxy, reading medical records in real-time, and filing formal reports with Medicare, insurance providers, the hospital board, and the Joint Commission.
Lala: Tell us more about the broader mission of the STEM and Cancer Health Equity Foundation.
Dr. Manley: The foundation focuses on three key pillars:
- Workforce & STEM Pipeline: Exposing inner-city youth to STEM early and supporting diverse scholars as they navigate academic and scientific careers without being forced into groupthink.
- Health Equity Conferences: Hosting our annual Lung Cancer Health Equity Interventions Conference, bringing together researchers, clinicians, patients, hospital systems, and payers to showcase actionable solutions rather than just restating problems.
- Patient Education: Breaking down complex medical jargon and myChart notes into accessible, patient-friendly infographics so patients can make informed care decisions.
Lala: My mom and sister both have backgrounds in biology, chemistry, and IT. My mom worked in biology and nuclear power back in the '70s and '80s when she was usually the first and only Black woman in the room. Teaching the next generation how to navigate these fields and advocate for themselves early on is vital.
You often say that equity must be measurable to be meaningful. What does measurable equity look like in cancer care?
Dr. Manley: Hard metrics in health equity include clear numbers: how many patients received screening, how many received biomarker testing, and how many enrolled in clinical trials.
However, equity also requires qualitative metrics:
- What is the representation on the clinical trial team and at the trial site?
- Do trial coordinators reflect the community they are trying to reach?
- Are healthcare systems building long-term trust with underserved communities, or are they just dropping in for a trial and leaving?
Health equity cannot be done overnight. Systemic change takes time, so you have to measure and celebrate progress one step at a time.
Lala: You also advocate for making compassion a performance metric. How does that look in practice?
Dr. Manley: At our lung cancer health equity summit in Chicago, a Black patient came up to me in tears at the end of the conference. She said it was the most empowering event she had ever attended because she saw Black researchers, clinicians, payers, and patients in the same space discussing high-level science in a way that was accessible, respectful, and human.
The metric there is human impact. When patients feel seen, respected, and acknowledged, their mental and physical well-being improves, which directly impacts survivorship.
Lala: Over the last year, we've seen corporate retreats from DEI commitments and performative statements. How has that environment impacted your foundation, and how are you navigating it?
Dr. Manley: We see these societal cycles repeatedly—two steps forward, one or two steps back. The recent backlash has forced many organizations reliant on federal funding to alter their grant terminology and scrub website language to remain compliant or afloat.
For our foundation, the mission doesn't change because the community's needs don't go away. We are steadfast and stubborn! We are actively diversifying our funding streams beyond pharma grants—expanding our consulting services, corporate workshops, and speaking engagements so we remain sustainable and independent.
Lala: Carrying this work is heavy. What gives you hope when things feel challenging?
Dr. Manley: At a root level, I remain an optimist. I believe that if you treat people with dignity and respect, they will generally treat you the same way. All you can control is how you interact with others. People will always remember how you made them feel and how you treated them.
Lala: That is so true. We stand on the shoulders of ancestors who fought just to survive, and now we have the opportunity to build systems where our communities can truly thrive.
Dr. Manley, if listeners want to learn more, support your work, or get involved with the foundation, where should they go?
Dr. Manley: Visit our website at scheq.org (STEM and Cancer Health Equity Foundation). You can find educational resources, patient infographics, webinar recordings, and information on our consulting services. You can also email us at info@scheq.org or connect with us on social media!
Lala: All of those links will be in our show notes so our listeners can follow, support, and amplify your work! Thank you so much, Dr. Manley, for sharing your expertise, your story, and your heart with us today.
Dr. Manley: Thank you so much. It's been a complete pleasure!
Lala: Listeners, you can connect with us at embwpodcast@gmail.com or find us on Facebook and Instagram. We will see you all on the next episode. Have a great day, everyone!
